{"id":1532,"date":"2025-04-07T02:51:46","date_gmt":"2025-04-07T02:51:46","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.furman.edu\/academics\/tocqueville-program\/?post_type=furman-update&p=1532"},"modified":"2025-04-07T14:50:51","modified_gmt":"2025-04-07T14:50:51","slug":"interview-with-sergey-radchenko-seeing-the-shades-of-grey-on-russia-china-and-intellectual-freedom","status":"publish","type":"furman-update","link":"https:\/\/www.furman.edu\/academics\/tocqueville-program\/lectures\/interview-with-sergey-radchenko-seeing-the-shades-of-grey-on-russia-china-and-intellectual-freedom\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview with Sergey Radchenko: Shades of Grey On Russia and China, and the Need for Intellectual Freedom"},"content":{"rendered":"

A Tocqueville Center interview with Cold War historian Sergey Radchenko<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

\"Sergey<\/p>\n

Sergey Radchenko<\/b> is the Wilson E. Schmidt Distinguished Professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and one of the world\u2019s leading historians of the Cold War, Russian foreign policy, and nuclear diplomacy. His research spans Soviet and Chinese archives, and his work has reshaped how scholars and policymakers understand 20th-century geopolitics.<\/span><\/p>\n

Dr. Radchenko is the author of several books, including <\/span>To Run the World: The Kremlin\u2019s Cold War Bid for Global Power<\/span><\/i> (2024), and has published widely in <\/span>Foreign Affairs<\/span><\/i>, <\/span>The New York Times<\/span><\/i>, and other leading outlets. His work bridges scholarship and public engagement, offering critical insights into global power dynamics.<\/span><\/p>\n

In March 2025, he visited the Tocqueville Center at Furman University to deliver a lecture titled <\/span>\u201cThe Russia Problem\u2014with an Eye to China\u201d<\/b><\/a>, where he spoke on the legacy of Cold War diplomacy, the logic of Russian strategy, and the challenges of open discourse in a polarized academic and policy environment.<\/span><\/p>\n

American Students and the View from a Distance<\/b><\/h2>\n

Tocqueville Center:<\/b> Is there anything you\u2019d want to say to a college-age audience? Something about how Russia\u2014or China\u2014is understood here?<\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey Radchenko:<\/b> Well, you know, students here obviously don\u2019t have direct experience of China or Russia in the same way we do in Europe. I mean, China is somewhat of an issue, but it\u2019s not really the same. Russia is much more immediate for us. Since the invasion of Ukraine, for example, we\u2019ve had Ukrainian refugees arriving in large numbers. So students over there, they have a better hands-on view of what\u2019s going on.<\/span><\/p>\n

Here, you\u2019re basically on the other side of the world. Russia and China\u2014they\u2019re abstract concepts. They exist out there.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\u201cThey are abstract concepts that exist out there.\u201d<\/b><\/h5>\n<\/blockquote>\n

And that\u2019s part of why this idea of isolationism\u2014or some return to it\u2014sells well here. Because these places feel far away, and what happens there seems like it has no bearing on what happens here. This notion of interconnectedness\u2014it just doesn\u2019t always connect for a lot of people.<\/span><\/p>\n

That said, I do notice a lot of curiosity. Students here, they have opinions. They want to know what happened, who was at fault. And there\u2019s real interest in engaging with people like me, who are from that part of the world and have a perspective on how things are developing.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"Sergey<\/h2>\n

The Problem of Echo Chambers<\/b><\/h2>\n

Tocqueville Center:<\/b> Outside of the student context\u2014what\u2019s missing in the broader public conversation? What do you find frustrating?<\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey Radchenko:<\/b> What I\u2019m mainly concerned about are echo chambers. Echo chambers when it comes to our understanding of policy questions\u2014Russia, China. There\u2019s a tendency for people to self-censor. If they feel that what they say might not be accepted by their peers, or might hurt their careers, they hold back.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\u201cThere is a tendency for people to self-censor if they feel that if they say something\u2026 that will be detrimental to their careers.\u201d<\/b><\/h5>\n<\/blockquote>\n

I\u2019ve seen that with China, especially. For years\u2014and things are starting to change now\u2014but for years, if you were in Washington, you had to be a China hawk. That was the consensus. There was very little space for people who said, \u201cMaybe we should try to avoid confrontation.\u201d Those people were dismissed as na\u00efve, or as \u201cpanda huggers.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

That kind of environment doesn\u2019t help us think clearly about the China problem.<\/span><\/p>\n

And on top of that, a lot of the people who weigh in on these issues\u2014they\u2019re not China experts. Maybe they don\u2019t speak Chinese, maybe they\u2019ve never even been to China. And look, I\u2019m not saying we should exclude them\u2014they sometimes have interesting things to say. But if too many people in the room are like that, and there aren\u2019t enough actual experts, that\u2019s a problem.<\/span><\/p>\n

The same applies to Russia.<\/span><\/p>\n

What You Can\u2019t Say Anymore<\/b><\/h2>\n

In Europe, after Russia invaded Ukraine, there were just certain things you knew not to say. So that created this echo chamber effect. And once that\u2019s in place, even when people are faced with new evidence\u2014evidence that contradicts the dominant view\u2014they\u2019ll reject it. Or they just ignore it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tocqueville Center:<\/b> Can you give an example?<\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey Radchenko:<\/b> Sure. One example is Mearsheimer\u2014John Mearsheimer. He\u2019s got this theory that Putin invaded Ukraine because he was worried about NATO enlargement, and that\u2019s the only reason.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, he doesn\u2019t speak Russian. He\u2019s not a regional expert. But this theory\u2014it\u2019s become very popular in some circles. And he\u2019s very insistent that he\u2019s right. I personally think it\u2019s bonkers. But I\u2019d never try to suppress that. It\u2019s good that it\u2019s out there. We should be discussing it.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\u201cI personally think [Mearsheimer\u2019s view is] bonkers, but I would never try to suppress that.\u201d<\/b><\/h5>\n<\/blockquote>\n

The bigger problem is when people insist, with absolute certainty, that Russia has no grounds to claim there\u2019s been any discrimination against Russian speakers in Ukraine. And then they label anyone who raises that point as a Putin apologist, or a useful idiot. And I just think, come on\u2014look at what\u2019s actually happening.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s not about being stupid\u2014it\u2019s just that people get sucked into these narratives and feel they can\u2019t say certain things, even if they\u2019re true.<\/span><\/p>\n

The Istanbul Talks and the Backlash<\/b><\/h2>\n

I had a very interesting experience with this. I co-wrote an article with Sam Charap of RAND\u2014we looked at the Istanbul negotiations between Russia and Ukraine. The article ended up being one of the best of 2024 in <\/span>Foreign Affairs<\/span><\/i>. But we got attacked like crazy. Absolute mob attacks. Angry emails.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\u201cWe got attacked like crazy after publishing this article.\u201d<\/b><\/h5>\n<\/blockquote>\n

People claimed we were justifying Putin, or that we falsely claimed he wanted to negotiate. And I said, \u201cWell, here\u2019s my evidence. Where\u2019s yours?\u201d But they didn\u2019t have any. They just didn\u2019t want that narrative to be challenged.<\/span><\/p>\n

Later, I saw something similar at a conference in Estonia. Sam gave a talk and got into a very intense exchange with a Ukrainian participant. It was just a really hostile atmosphere. And I thought, I get it\u2014we\u2019re talking about war, and people are emotional\u2014but still, you can\u2019t shut down views that don\u2019t match your own.<\/span><\/p>\n

Because then we\u2019re just talking to ourselves. And we miss obvious things.<\/span><\/p>\n

Trying to Stay in the Middle<\/b><\/h2>\n

In my work\u2014whether it\u2019s Russia, China, or something else\u2014I try to steer toward the center. To the extent that the center even exists. I try to look at different perspectives and put them side by side and ask: is it really black and white? Or is it some shade of gray?<\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\u201cI try to steer\u2026 toward the center\u2026 Is it really black and white? Or is it some shade of gray?\u201d<\/b><\/h5>\n<\/blockquote>\n

And I know a lot of people don\u2019t like that. They see it as morally weak. When I say, \u201cIt\u2019s not so simple,\u201d they think I\u2019m justifying something terrible. But of course I\u2019m not. It\u2019s just\u2026 it\u2019s not so simple.<\/span><\/p>\n

\"Sergey<\/h2>\n

Academic Culture and Ideological Policing<\/b><\/h2>\n

Tocqueville Center:<\/b> That reflects something broader in academia\u2014the tendency to begin with doctrine and exclude anything that doesn\u2019t align with it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey Radchenko:<\/b> Exactly. Instead of starting with a question and evaluating evidence, we start with a conclusion. And then anything that doesn\u2019t line up gets pushed aside.<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019ve seen this in so many areas\u2014in academia more broadly. Whether it’s colonialism, gender, DEI, Israel\u2013Palestine. Everything is so polarized.<\/span><\/p>\n

What really worries me is that there are people actively looking for opportunities to take their colleagues down. They\u2019ll use something someone said\u2014maybe years ago\u2014and try to ruin them with it. I find that outrageous.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\u201cThat reminds me of the kind of Soviet system of denunciations and backstabbing.\u201d<\/b><\/h5>\n<\/blockquote>\n

And I think part of why it affects me so much is that I grew up in the USSR. That culture of denunciation\u2014it reminds me of that. It\u2019s really disturbing.<\/span><\/p>\n

Literature, History, and the Russian Mind<\/b><\/h2>\n

Tocqueville Center:<\/b> If a student wanted to understand Russia\u2014not just the politics, but the deeper culture\u2014what should they read?<\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey Radchenko:<\/b> There\u2019s a guy at Georgetown, Charles King, who once wrote that we shouldn\u2019t read 19th-century Russian novels to understand the \u201cRussian soul\u201d\u2014just like reading Mark Twain won\u2019t necessarily explain America.<\/span><\/p>\n

Maybe he\u2019s right. But I still think it\u2019s important to read Russian literature. Not just to understand Russia, but to ask the fundamental questions we all face as human beings.<\/span><\/p>\n

\n
\u201cI feel enriched by doing that. I always draw my students\u2019 attention to the richness of Russian literature.\u201d<\/b><\/h5>\n<\/blockquote>\n

I\u2019ve read volumes and volumes\u2014Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, all of them. Students today often don\u2019t want to read something that\u2019s 1,000 pages long, but I think that deep engagement matters. Not just with Russian literature\u2014with any literature.<\/span><\/p>\n

And then there\u2019s history. We\u2019re all rooted in history. If you want to understand where Russia or China is headed today, you have to read their histories. That helps you see how things have been interpreted, how experiences have been passed down. It doesn\u2019t tell you everything\u2014but it opens your mind.<\/span><\/p>\n

Historians to Read<\/b><\/h2>\n

Tocqueville Center:<\/b> Are there historians of Russia you\u2019d recommend?<\/span><\/p>\n

Sergey Radchenko:<\/b> Sure. I love Simon Sebag Montefiore. He\u2019s written biographies of Stalin, the Romanovs, Catherine the Great. He\u2019s a fantastic storyteller\u2014his books are for the general public. You can find them in airport bookstores all over Europe.<\/span><\/p>\n

If you want something serious and scholarly, Stephen Kotkin is the way to go. His Stalin biographies are incredible\u2014very deep, very rigorous. You have to work through them, but it\u2019s worth it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Orlando Figes is another one\u2014he\u2019s written about Russian cultural history, the Crimean War. Also very readable. I think students would enjoy his books because they\u2019re light, but still informative.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

A Tocqueville Center interview with Cold War historian Sergey Radchenko Sergey Radchenko is the Wilson E. Schmidt Distinguished Professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and one […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"featured_media":1534,"template":"","update-categories":[6],"class_list":["post-1532","furman-update","type-furman-update","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","furman-update-category-interviews"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.furman.edu\/academics\/tocqueville-program\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/lectures\/1532","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.furman.edu\/academics\/tocqueville-program\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/lectures"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.furman.edu\/academics\/tocqueville-program\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/furman-update"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/www.furman.edu\/academics\/tocqueville-program\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/lectures\/1532\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1541,"href":"https:\/\/www.furman.edu\/academics\/tocqueville-program\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/lectures\/1532\/revisions\/1541"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.furman.edu\/academics\/tocqueville-program\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/1534"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.furman.edu\/academics\/tocqueville-program\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1532"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"furman-update-category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.furman.edu\/academics\/tocqueville-program\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/update-categories?post=1532"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}